Regulation of the boiler temperature by sending signals 0-10V

[FMRathmanner]

Hello everybody,

we would like to control the boiler temperature by sending signals from 0-10V from the heating controller to the scotte controller.
We often use three-way-mixing-valves and that is the reason, why we use the UVR1611( type of universal controller).
The UVR1611 (http://wiki.uvr1611.at/doku.php/en/start) and many other controllers can send a signal to the heater( 0-10V) to regulate the boiler temperature. 0V are 0° and 10 V are 100°.
My question is, is it possible to send the signal to the Scotte controller, so the controller can adjust and change the temperature to the wanted temperature?

Best regards
Sandra

[MHES]

Hi Sandra,

No, as it is right now the setpoint of temperature is set by a figure in the controller.

Professionally I am quite known with analouge signals 0-10V or 0/4-20 mA and use them very often in control systems, but to be hornest I can't see the reason to use it in the pellets burner.
In order to have a steady good burning, you need a steady enviroment and changing the boiler setpoint temperature doesn't ensure this.
Another point is capabillity to produce hot water for the water tap, for this you also need a specific temperature.

Best regards
Michael

Hello everybody,

we would like to control the boiler temperature by sending signals from 0-10V from the heating controller to the scotte controller.
We often use three-way-mixing-valves and that is the reason, why we use the UVR1611( type of universal controller).
The UVR1611 (http://wiki.uvr1611.at/doku.php/en/start) and many other controllers can send a signal to the heater( 0-10V) to regulate the boiler temperature. 0V are 0° and 10 V are 100°.
My question is, is it possible to send the signal to the Scotte controller, so the controller can adjust and change the temperature to the wanted temperature?

Best regards
Sandra

[FMRathmanner]

Hiiiiiii Michael,

Most of the Heating systmes, here in Austria, are low-temperature-heating-systems. Since their flow temperature is not even 40°, we don`t need a boiler temperature more than 58°. For the water heating we need 65°-70°. We reduced manually the boiler temperature to 58° and we figured out, that the burner needs less pellets and the smoke temperatur went down. The emission value is quite good, though.
Reasoned in the switch from Oil - and Gasburner to Pelletburner, we need to find a possibility to use the existing Controllers(and their signal is 0-10V) with the Scotte Controllers.
Many of our customers ask for that.

Best wishes,
Sandra

[DennisRN]

Hello FMRathmanner

As i read it, it sounds like you are trying to invent the spoon one more time...

The Scotte/Woody Controler comes with a funktion called 'Hot Water Priority'.
I use it myself in the summertime when it's to hot outside.
With the help from a temp.sensor and a three way motor valve the controler is abel to
run with an average temp. of - let's say 40 degrees Celcius - and when the hot water temp. drops
under a given temp., it will regulate itself up 70 degrees or what ever you choose, to heat water.
When that is done, it turns itself down to the wanted average temp. or even turn off until the
next time the water temp is under it's minimum.
Then the cyclus start again.
Regards
Dennis

[MHES]

Hi Sandra,

I fully agree with Dennis 

If it is a question to run the boiler at 55-60^oC for heating and then increase temperature when producing hot water, you have exactly that function in the NBE control box 

My own boiler runs with setpoint of 55 ^oC for heating, and increases to 70^oC for producing hot water, without any external controller 

You can even choose when throug out the day you will allow the hot water production to take place 

Best regards
Michael
 

Hello FMRathmanner

As i read it, it sounds like you are trying to invent the spoon one more time...

The Scotte/Woody Controler comes with a funktion called 'Hot Water Priority'.
I use it myself in the summertime when it's to hot outside.
With the help from a temp.sensor and a three way motor valve the controler is abel to
run with an average temp. of - let's say 40 degrees Celcius - and when the hot water temp. drops
under a given temp., it will regulate itself up 70 degrees or what ever you choose, to heat water.
When that is done, it turns itself down to the wanted average temp. or even turn off until the
next time the water temp is under it's minimum.
Then the cyclus start again.
Regards
Dennis

[FMRathmanner]

Hi guys,

BUT(<--womans favourite word  )

The point is: we are programming complex Controls, that regulate the entire house technology including the heating plant, ventilating-and air conditioning, sunshades, hot water, solar energy, etc.
The heating systems are low-temperature-heating-systems.  The heating circuits are regulated by three-way-mixing-valves.
Unfortunately, the Scotte control can’t manage all of these features.
For example: The Scotte Control is able to regulate only one heating circuit but we need 2 and more.
As I said before, the controls send a output signal for modulating burners from 0-10V. Exactly this output is used with all common Controls in Austria and Germany.
Due to high Oil-and  gasprices many people would like to switch to Pellet Systems(and Scotte becomes more and more popular here in Austria), with little effort and in a cost-effective manner.
That’s why we try to find a solution how to regulate the Scotte Control with 0-10V. 

Best wishes,
Sandra

 

[Martin Pedersen]

That’s why we try to find a solution how to regulate the Scotte Control with 0-10V. 

This is not supported by the Scotte.. that's the simple answer, and not a solution.

With a little ingenuity you can cheat. You have the VVB temperature input probe... if you replace that with a variable resistance output, controlled by a 0-10V signal, you can cheat the Scotte into thinking that the VVB needs heat... and if I understand it correctly, I think that the boiler temperature will be +10 of what the VVB temperature is, so if you set the boiler temperature for 45 degrees, and the VVB set temperature to 90 degrees, you could actually control the temperature from 45 to 90 degrees. Do you understand what I mean? I tell the controller that the VVB is 55 degrees, the boiler will increase temperature to 65 degrees. I don't know if there will be any complications with this, but I think you could get this idea to work... but of course it needs thorough testing. Another thing is that, if there's a big market for this, we could ask NBE to provide a controller that is able to handle this input...?

[Kurt_J]

i believe the "boiler" input is 0-10mA ( thats what the KTY81 sensor is able to handle )

in that case the 0-10V that the controller working with has to be converted into mA that the scotte controller can work with

[FMRathmanner]

Thanks to everybody for your help so far.

We already tried to distort the temperature by a Micro-Controller. Therefore a modulation of the boiler would work out, but this solution is not yet satisfying, since the display shows the same temperature, all the time.

[Martin Pedersen]

If you want a picture perfect solution, you need to team up with NBE... I'm sure that they can accommodate you if there's a market for it.

I wouldn't personally manipulate the Boiler temperature input. You'd have to reverse their PID regulation, and all the safety mechanisms is also set out of operation when you do that. I would use the VVB input instead... and then the boiler temperature would be correct.

[svbech]

Hello
I have also UVR1611 and Scotte pelletsburner, i have tried to ask NBE for help, they have absolutely no interrest in helping with this.
There is on need to meddle with the PID in the burner, the 0-10v signal from UVR should only tell the burner how manny % power is requierd

Instead i am now cheating the burner, i have made the feed pump to the boiler rpm regulated from the PID function in the UVR, this way i can control how hard the pelletsburner have to work in order to maintain boiler set temperture.

It took a little adjustment, but its working fine now.