Stokerforum
Pillefyr => Boink, Scotte, Woody, Biocomfort, RTB => Emne startet af: scottedor efter Apr 28, 2015, 22:51
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hej hvad styrer iltstyringen på når den skal regulere er det på pillerne eller på luften mvh erik
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Det er på luften
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Hmm, ikke helt så simpelt ;)
Iltstyringen har reelt to reguleringer som kan indstilles hver for sig og som faktisk kan sættes ud af drift hver især hvis de sættes til 0 (nul).
Den ene regulator regulerer blæserens hastighed øjeblikkeligt , den anden regulator regulerer pilledoseringen over lang tid.
Blæser reguleringen er en PI-regulator mens pilledoserings regulatoren er en ren I-regulator.
Pilledoserings regulatoren justerer på doseringetallet i hhv. Lav, Mellem og Høj afhængig af hvilket interval brænderen aktuelt kører i.
Populært kan man sige at blæser regulatoren korrigerer straks og kortsigtet for evt. fejl og udsving mens pilledoserings regulatoren "lærer" over tid hvis forbrændingen konstant er skæv.
Hilsen
Michael
Det er på luften
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The older V6 boxes actually had 'PD' regulation of blower speed and 'I' regulation of pellet feed, even if it's called 'PI' in the menus (I can back that up by having actually measured and logged blower speed response in different scenarios with my V6.33, http://www.stokerforum.dk/index.php?topic=4831.0). I understand that in V7/10 the blower speed regulation is now actually P+I, but it seems strange to me how two 'I' regulators can work in parallel. If the blower speed 'I' component is faster than the pellet feeder 'I' component then the blower speed will rise or fall until the oxygen error is zero and then the pellet feed 'I' component does not have anything to act on anymore, stable state reached. Or alternatively if the pellet feed 'I' is faster then that will 'win'. I suppose it works if there are limits on the blower speed 'I' component, so that when it has reached the floor/roof it stops there and the slower feeder 'I' continues to wind down or up.
Btw, I vaguely remember having read somewhere that even older versions acted only on pellet feed. Blower regulation was apparently added later, possibly later than V4.12?
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Pilledoserings regulatoren justerer på doseringetallet i hhv. Lav, Mellem og Høj afhængig af hvilket interval brænderen aktuelt kører i.
My 6.33 does not do that, at least when 'autocalculation' is on. It adjusts the 'feeder capacity' setting (g/360s), which then affects dosage in the whole 10-100% interval, regardless of where it is currently running.
This too has apparently been changed on V7/10.
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Hi Motoz,
You are completly right concerning "old software" and "old controllers" :)
I was not clear enough in my answer, so I will update my post ;)
Anyway all v6 control boxes from v6.50 and onward have the functionallity I describe.
Older controllers have different behavior, some regulate the blower some regulate the pellets feed and some doesn't work ;)
Do not worry about the two I-controllers working "together", it works ;)
The main regulation is the blower regulation which is straigth on, while the pellets feed regulation is kind of looking on what the blower regulation does and rgulates according to that.
Means, if the blower regulation has positive output (sum of P and I) then the pellets feed are reduced a bit (correction factor is manipulated) with a percentage of the output from blower regulation.
Reverse goes on if blower regulation has negative output.
The correction factor is manipulated for the range of actual power, Low, Mid and High, and the regulation is very slow.
Best regards
Michael
The older V6 boxes actually had 'PD' regulation of blower speed and 'I' regulation of pellet feed, even if it's called 'PI' in the menus (I can back that up by having actually measured and logged blower speed response in different scenarios with my V6.33, http://www.stokerforum.dk/index.php?topic=4831.0). I understand that in V7/10 the blower speed regulation is now actually P+I, but it seems strange to me how two 'I' regulators can work in parallel. If the blower speed 'I' component is faster than the pellet feeder 'I' component then the blower speed will rise or fall until the oxygen error is zero and then the pellet feed 'I' component does not have anything to act on anymore, stable state reached. Or alternatively if the pellet feed 'I' is faster then that will 'win'. I suppose it works if there are limits on the blower speed 'I' component, so that when it has reached the floor/roof it stops there and the slower feeder 'I' continues to wind down or up.
Btw, I vaguely remember having read somewhere that even older versions acted only on pellet feed. Blower regulation was apparently added later, possibly later than V4.12?
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Jeg skal efter Motoz's indlæg specificere at mit svar gælder nuværende og nyere ilt-styringer ;)
Ældre styringer (v4.x og styringer før v6.x) har en anderledes regulering.
Hilsen
Michael
Hmm, ikke helt så simpelt ;)
Iltstyringen har reelt to reguleringer som kan indstilles hver for sig og som faktisk kan sættes ud af drift hver især hvis de sættes til 0 (nul).
Den ene regulator regulerer blæserens hastighed øjeblikkeligt , den anden regulator regulerer pilledoseringen over lang tid.
Blæser reguleringen er en PI-regulator mens pilledoserings regulatoren er en ren I-regulator.
Pilledoserings regulatoren justerer på doseringetallet i hhv. Lav, Mellem og Høj afhængig af hvilket interval brænderen aktuelt kører i.
Populært kan man sige at blæser regulatoren korrigerer straks og kortsigtet for evt. fejl og udsving mens pilledoserings regulatoren "lærer" over tid hvis forbrændingen konstant er skæv.
Hilsen
Michael
Det er på luften
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hvis den regulerer på luften kan man jo forestille sig at hvis der kommer smuld i sneglen så drosler den blæseren og dermed nedsætter brænderens max ydelse , hvis den derimod regulerer på blæseren akut og derefter regulerer på piller så blæseren igen når op på det indstillede så lyder det fornuftigt.mvh erik
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...og det er netop det der sker i versioner fra v6.50 og frem samt i v7 og v10 ;)
hvis den regulerer på luften kan man jo forestille sig at hvis der kommer smuld i sneglen så drosler den blæseren og dermed nedsætter brænderens max ydelse , hvis den derimod regulerer på blæseren akut og derefter regulerer på piller så blæseren igen når op på det indstillede så lyder det fornuftigt.mvh erik
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...og det er netop det der sker i versioner fra v6.50 og frem samt i v7 og v10 ;)
hvis den regulerer på luften kan man jo forestille sig at hvis der kommer smuld i sneglen så drosler den blæseren og dermed nedsætter brænderens max ydelse , hvis den derimod regulerer på blæseren akut og derefter regulerer på piller så blæseren igen når op på det indstillede så lyder det fornuftigt.mvh erik
tak for gode svar mvh erik