Stokerforum
Pillefyr => Boink, Scotte, Woody, Biocomfort, RTB => Emne startet af: egon efter Okt 16, 2009, 13:59
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Can someone comment this Woody graph. Is it normal that light goes under 10 so many times. In what range the light should be and what I can do about it?
(http://blackpoint.pri.ee/download/woodygraph.jpg)
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Hi Egon
That is very normal when your boiler only do 10%. Then it is a very small fire and the light is very low.
But there is no problem in it at all as long as the fire does not go out and your Woddy has to start up again all the time
/JMB
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Perhaps you could set the Woody on a timer that will shut it down in the day time when you don't need the heat. You could use the timer build-in Woody timer.
Or maybe you could the 'Summer stop'-function in newere versions of the Woody control. To do this you need a extra temperature sensor (10 euro on eBay or even cheaper if you build it your self).
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Hi Egon,
As you already know, the drop of light to under 10 in short periods when running 10% power is no problem.
However you might have a problem concerning the regulation loop of the temperature.
Your burner is reacting very aggressively on even small changes in the boiler temperature.
It looks like your setpoint temperature for the boiler is about 60 degrees, and small changes in the area of 3-4 degrees, changes the power to go from 10% to 40% in a short periode.
This looks like a too high P-value in the PID-regulation parameters.
Especially under low utilization you will see this problem .
What is the setting of your PID-parameters?
Best regards
Michael
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My PID-parameters are:
P=2.5
I=1.0
D=1.0
I never changed them. I think these are the default values of the chip.
What values are you recommending?
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Hi Egon,
These values sounds not too bad, but I would suggest to reduce all three to something like:
P=1.5
I=0.5
D=0.5
...and see if the curves looks better.
Best regards
Michael
My PID-parameters are:
P=2.5
I=1.0
D=1.0
I never changed them. I think these are the default values of the chip.
What values are you recommending?
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Thanks the curves are better now.
:)
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Hi Egon,
Nice :)
Could you upload a screenshot of the new curves, just to get an feeling about the change.
Best regards
Michael
Thanks the curves are better now.
:)
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You can look my live curves here: http://www.blackpoint.pri.ee/pillefyr/ (http://www.blackpoint.pri.ee/pillefyr/)
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Hi Egon,
I still think your burner is reacting very aggressively on even small changes in the boiler temperature.
I did a calculation from the data on your graf-page and found:
Teoretical power low is 5.3 KW and high is 29,6 KW.
That is a high power for a normal house, and it looks like your burner is fas too big for your need.
Wich size burner do you have ?
Have you ever had the burner reduced in power ?
Do you need the high power ?
Best regards
Michael
You can look my live curves here: http://www.blackpoint.pri.ee/pillefyr/ (http://www.blackpoint.pri.ee/pillefyr/)
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I am not sure but I think I have Woody 24KW.
I have OPOP H418 and 150L hot water boiler.
My house is 147 m2.
If you look at those spikes on the graph at the morning and in the evening. Those are generated when the hot water circulation pump is on. When the circulation pump is on (hot water circulates in pipe) I get hot water from the crane immediately and dont have to wait for it.
No I never had the burner reduced in power. Do you think I need to do that? How do you do that?
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Hi Egon,
Yes, I think you would have succes with reducing your burner.
From your curves I can see that your average power need is less than 10 % at this time of the year, so I think you are "pulling a small trailer with a big truck" :)
Reducing the burner is simply to reduce the auger time for low and high, as well as reducing the blower for low and high.
You can read these settings with the aid of your stokerkontrol software.
Have a look under Setup >> Factory and tell me the values for Blower low and Blower high.
Then look under Setup >> Operation and tell me the values for Pellets low and Pellets high.
If I have the values, I can give you a hint to what would be realistic values for lower power.
Best regards
Michael
I am not sure but I think I have Woody 24KW.
I have OPOP H418 and 150L hot water boiler.
My house is 147 m2.
If you look at those spikes on the graph at the morning and in the evening. Those are generated when the hot water circulation pump is on. When the circulation pump is on (hot water circulates in pipe) I get hot water from the crane immediately and dont have to wait for it.
No I never had the burner reduced in power. Do you think I need to do that? How do you do that?
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In Setup > Factory I have:
Blower low = 5
Blower high = 20
In Setup > Operation I have:
Pellets low = 9.25
Pellets high = 51.4
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Hi Egon,
Just a couple of questions more :)
I can see that your "Chimney draft" is set to 4, is that correct ?
Is your drag in the chimney so high ?
You don't have a "drag stabilizer" in the chimney ? (like this one http://www.hedestoker.dk/shop/itemdescription.asp?id=1262 (http://www.hedestoker.dk/shop/itemdescription.asp?id=1262) nice german manual http://www.hedestoker.dk/content/PDF/Dragex_trækstabilisator_datablad.pdf (http://www.hedestoker.dk/content/PDF/Dragex_trækstabilisator_datablad.pdf))
Is your "Auger capacitive / 6 min" meassured to be 1200 g or is it just factory setting ?
Is your combustion (Verbrennung) working well ?
Best regards
Michael
In Setup > Factory I have:
Blower low = 5
Blower high = 20
In Setup > Operation I have:
Pellets low = 9.25
Pellets high = 51.4
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I can see that your "Chimney draft" is set to 4, is that correct ?
I dont now I never changed it.
Is your drag in the chimney so high ?
Dont now that either. :-[
You don't have a "drag stabilizer" in the chimney ?
No.
Is your "Auger capacitive / 6 min" meassured to be 1200 g or is it just factory setting ?
It is measured.
Is your combustion (Verbrennung) working well ?
I think so. ???
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Hi Egon,
I think your installation is a little more complicated, than first thinking.
First of all, I am not sure if your burner size is correct (24 KW) it looks a little too big.
It sounds like the burner has never been fine tuned.
Definitely you need a “drag stabilizer” in your chimney.
The most critical points in selecting and installing pellet burners are:
• Choose a burner with just only enough power, don’t oversize.
• Always keep the burners power as low as possible.
• Make sure to have a stable, low drag in the chimney (vacuum aprox. -10 Pa.).
• Adjust to proper combustion.
These points must be looked after by the installer of the system.
Afterwards the user only needs to assure that the burner and boiler are kept clean, and the combustion is checked and adjusted if necessary.
In your case it sounds like the burner is chosen not to be too little, it is installed without drag stabilizer, and it might need to have the combustion proper adjusted.
I do not know who made the installation, and this is not an indictment of him, but merely a statement of what should be done.
So Egon, it is all up to you to decide if you want to go further or just leave it as it is.
I would recommend you to the following:
• Install a drag stabilizer in your chimney.
• Readjust burner parameters for chimney drag.
• Readjust burner parameters for combustion (Auger time low and high).
I can see from your web-page that you properly have an Ouman EH-203 regulator on your installation.
If this is correct, this regulator can be the reason to some of the strange curves from your burner, but your installation still needs to be correct done.
To be honest, I don’t understand why use such a sophisticated regulator as Ouman EH-203, and let the burner work in an unoptimized way.
You could save a lot of money in proper combustion in your burner.
Best regards
Michael